State Indoor Meet "situations"
02/22/2010 4:55:10 PM
User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 99
Anyone have any comments about the rulings (or lack of) during the distance and relay events in the 2 state meets? I was a little disturbed by how some of the situations were handled. I don't want to take anything away from the superb performances of the athletes, but I did see some things that seemed to be unfair. In 4A, you had the collision in the 1600m and then you had the extra 3200m heat for the "late check-in thing". In the 1a/2a/3a meet, I saw the #1 seed in the first heat of the 1600m get cut off from the very first step and pushed into the divider(which cost her a good number of seconds in the first lap and probably 3-4 positions in the overall standings). Then there was the dropped batons and collisions in the 4x400 relays which could have cost team points. The judging seemed really suspect and lacking in a lot of the events I thought. It was only the second indoor state meet I've attended, but is that the "norm" for the handling of this meet?
Anyone have any comments about the rulings (or lack of) during the distance and relay events in the 2 state meets? I was a little disturbed by how some of the situations were handled. I don't want to take anything away from the superb performances of the athletes, but I did see some things that seemed to be unfair. In 4A, you had the collision in the 1600m and then you had the extra 3200m heat for the "late check-in thing". In the 1a/2a/3a meet, I saw the #1 seed in the first heat of the 1600m get cut off from the very first step and pushed into the divider(which cost her a good number of seconds in the first lap and probably 3-4 positions in the overall standings). Then there was the dropped batons and collisions in the 4x400 relays which could have cost team points. The judging seemed really suspect and lacking in a lot of the events I thought. It was only the second indoor state meet I've attended, but is that the "norm" for the handling of this meet?
02/22/2010 6:29:28 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2420
I feel that I should provide some more explanation, and accept some responsibility, for the girls' 3200 situation. As the Clerk of Course, I am ultimately responsible for the check-in procedures. I do not know why the girls were turned away when they came to check in the first two times. We were checking in two events ahead all day, and I can't come up with a reason for turning them away. I was on the track at the time, giving instructions to the 300 heats and getting them in place (as is the duty of the clerk of course). If I had known they were turning girls away when we were so close to the 3200, I would have correted it. Nonetheless, it is ultimately my responsibility, so I will take the bullet for it. On the other hand, the girls WERE told to stay close by. When the boys' 300 ended and it was time to start the girls' 3200, there were 7 girls who hadn't checked in, and none of them were present. Coaches and athletes do need to pay attention to the events, and the coaches who knew the 3200 was the next event should have insisted their athletes stay in the clerking area. It was an error to turn them away, but if you are forced to choose between checking in and warming up, you have to choose checking in. In any case, I raised the situation to the meet management, and they decided to condense the two sections based on the number of check-ins. At that point, I came back and closed check-in for the 3200 so that it could be re-seeded. Only the two Myers Park girls (who would have missed their race if we had gone on with the original sections without delay) were nearby at that point; the other 5 were still missing. Olympic's coach got wind of the situation, and went straight to the referee before the start of the re-seeded race; that is why she was allowed to run. The other coaches got there after the race had started. We can't have it both ways, and we can't go back and change mistakes in the past. If it was unfair to the girls, then they should get a chance to run. If the issue was raised to the referee after the first 3200 had begun, there is no option but to run another section, and that is clearly within the authority of the referee to decide. In the end, all the girls got to run, and whenever there is an issue that could go either way, I think we should always err on the side of participation. Based on the fact that they were told to stay in clerking, and did not, they could have been denied, but I don't think that would be the best answer, and I think the referee did the best he could under the circumstance. I deeply regret my part in that situation. I always aim to have an incident-free meet when I direct, and I certainly don't want to cause any problems as an official under another director. The coaches and athletes at Myers Park, TC Roberson, Olympic, and Watauga have my apology for making the day more stressful than it should have been.
I feel that I should provide some more explanation, and accept some responsibility, for the girls' 3200 situation. As the Clerk of Course, I am ultimately responsible for the check-in procedures. I do not know why the girls were turned away when they came to check in the first two times. We were checking in two events ahead all day, and I can't come up with a reason for turning them away. I was on the track at the time, giving instructions to the 300 heats and getting them in place (as is the duty of the clerk of course). If I had known they were turning girls away when we were so close to the 3200, I would have correted it. Nonetheless, it is ultimately my responsibility, so I will take the bullet for it.

On the other hand, the girls WERE told to stay close by. When the boys' 300 ended and it was time to start the girls' 3200, there were 7 girls who hadn't checked in, and none of them were present. Coaches and athletes do need to pay attention to the events, and the coaches who knew the 3200 was the next event should have insisted their athletes stay in the clerking area. It was an error to turn them away, but if you are forced to choose between checking in and warming up, you have to choose checking in.

In any case, I raised the situation to the meet management, and they decided to condense the two sections based on the number of check-ins. At that point, I came back and closed check-in for the 3200 so that it could be re-seeded. Only the two Myers Park girls (who would have missed their race if we had gone on with the original sections without delay) were nearby at that point; the other 5 were still missing. Olympic's coach got wind of the situation, and went straight to the referee before the start of the re-seeded race; that is why she was allowed to run. The other coaches got there after the race had started.

We can't have it both ways, and we can't go back and change mistakes in the past. If it was unfair to the girls, then they should get a chance to run. If the issue was raised to the referee after the first 3200 had begun, there is no option but to run another section, and that is clearly within the authority of the referee to decide. In the end, all the girls got to run, and whenever there is an issue that could go either way, I think we should always err on the side of participation. Based on the fact that they were told to stay in clerking, and did not, they could have been denied, but I don't think that would be the best answer, and I think the referee did the best he could under the circumstance.

I deeply regret my part in that situation. I always aim to have an incident-free meet when I direct, and I certainly don't want to cause any problems as an official under another director. The coaches and athletes at Myers Park, TC Roberson, Olympic, and Watauga have my apology for making the day more stressful than it should have been.
02/22/2010 6:49:09 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 137
This is a prime example of why a meet like the State Championships needs to be on a time schedule and not a rolling schedule. Then there are no issues of when the event is called, when to warmup or when to check in. With the exception of late scratches, fields are set and seeded. Little needs to be done at clerking other than lane assignments, hip numbers and uniform check. I know all the ifs & buts that can occur. They are not something you can control & will stop a meet in either scenario. BTW, I have officiated at Youth, HS, Open, Collegiate, Olympic Trials & IAAF Area Championships. The only place you see this done in Championships is at the HS level.
This is a prime example of why a meet like the State Championships needs to be on a time schedule and not a rolling schedule. Then there are no issues of when the event is called, when to warmup or when to check in. With the exception of late scratches, fields are set and seeded. Little needs to be done at clerking other than lane assignments, hip numbers and uniform check. I know all the ifs & buts that can occur. They are not something you can control & will stop a meet in either scenario. BTW, I have officiated at Youth, HS, Open, Collegiate, Olympic Trials & IAAF Area Championships. The only place you see this done in Championships is at the HS level.
02/22/2010 6:55:54 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 137
dbl msg
dbl msg
02/22/2010 7:49:18 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2420
After this weekend, I'm convinced a time schedule is needed. Unfortunately, I won't have the opportunity to make the change, as I have been removed from my position as the 4A outdoor meet director for complaining about the NCTCCCA. You'll need to convince DePaul Mittman, or you'll need to convince the NCHSAA to stop regarding him as the sole voice of the coaches in this state, before any substantive change can occur.
After this weekend, I'm convinced a time schedule is needed. Unfortunately, I won't have the opportunity to make the change, as I have been removed from my position as the 4A outdoor meet director for complaining about the NCTCCCA. You'll need to convince DePaul Mittman, or you'll need to convince the NCHSAA to stop regarding him as the sole voice of the coaches in this state, before any substantive change can occur.
02/22/2010 9:09:25 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 147
I will completely agree on a time schedule. The NCISAA sticks to a time schedule and it works wonderfully. If we get ahead, we still stick to the schedule. Helps gets who are primed and ready to race well at the end of the year not feel the extra stress. Coach George, sorry to hear you've been removed.
I will completely agree on a time schedule.

The NCISAA sticks to a time schedule and it works wonderfully. If we get ahead, we still stick to the schedule. Helps gets who are primed and ready to race well at the end of the year not feel the extra stress.

Coach George, sorry to hear you've been removed.
02/22/2010 9:58:16 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 118
I agree about the NCTCCCA. Coach Mittman has done a tremendous job but his voice should not be the only voice the NCHSAA hears. As I stated in a prior forum topic, the fact that the NCHSAA allows one man to have such a voice is detrimental to all athletes in the state. Basically one coach has the ear of Que Tucker and drives all decisions that effect all teams in the state. It needs to change!!
I agree about the NCTCCCA. Coach Mittman has done a tremendous job but his voice should not be the only voice the NCHSAA hears. As I stated in a prior forum topic, the fact that the NCHSAA allows one man to have such a voice is detrimental to all athletes in the state. Basically one coach has the ear of Que Tucker and drives all decisions that effect all teams in the state. It needs to change!!
02/23/2010 2:31:11 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 70
I was the official in charge of the curve/exchange where the baton was dropped. There were several people who saw it. The starter, the two judges at the beginning of the exchange zone and I. I watched very carefully, and I made a judgment call. The call was that the people who ran into each other were the incoming runners who had already passed the baton.I asked another official who saw it, and we agreed that there was no call for a DQ. The girl who dropped the baton picket it up and continued to run. I did not see any contact even though I did see one runner have to make a slight adjustment to get around her.I did not see anything that would warrant me DQing anyone at that time. The person who saw runners banging into others saw something that I did not. I was in position for the entire meet and I saw a minor amount of incidental contact during the day; however, I saw nothing that caused me to question any calls made in my area, by me, the starter, or the two coaches at the beginning of the exchange zone. One thing that I can say is that many times I see hear from coaches who did not bother to volunteer, help out, or those who volunteered and then did not show up or call anyone to let them know they would be there. I stood in my area from the beginning until the end of the meet, and did not get a break except to eat while the other judge from St Pauls covered for me. I then took back over so he could eat. J Alan Peoples Head Coach Polk County High President: NCTCCCA
I was the official in charge of the curve/exchange where the baton was dropped. There were several people who saw it. The starter, the two judges at the beginning of the exchange zone and I. I watched very carefully, and I made a judgment call. The call was that the people who ran into each other were the incoming runners who had already passed the baton.I asked another official who saw it, and we agreed that there was no call for a DQ.

The girl who dropped the baton picket it up and continued to run. I did not see any contact even though I did see one runner have to make a slight adjustment to get around her.I did not see anything that would warrant me DQing anyone at that time.

The person who saw runners banging into others saw something that I did not. I was in position for the entire meet and I saw a minor amount of incidental contact during the day; however, I saw nothing that caused me to question any calls made in my area, by me, the starter, or the two coaches at the beginning of the exchange zone.

One thing that I can say is that many times I see hear from coaches who did not bother to volunteer, help out, or those who volunteered and then did not show up or call anyone to let them know they would be there. I stood in my area from the beginning until the end of the meet, and did not get a break except to eat while the other judge from St Pauls covered for me. I then took back over so he could eat.

J Alan Peoples
Head Coach
Polk County High
President: NCTCCCA
02/23/2010 2:32:45 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 70
[quote=apeoples]I was the official in charge of the curve/exchange where the baton was dropped. There were several people who saw it. The starter, the two judges at the beginning of the exchange zone and I. I watched very carefully, and I made a judgment call. The call was that the people who ran into each other were the incoming runners who had already passed the baton.I asked another official who saw it, and we agreed that there was no call for a DQ. The girl who dropped the baton picket it up and continued to run. I did not see any contact even though I did see one runner have to make a slight adjustment to get around her.I did not see anything that would warrant me DQing anyone at that time. The person who saw runners banging into others saw something that I did not. I was in position for the entire meet and I saw a minor amount of incidental contact during the day; however, I saw nothing that caused me to question any calls made in my area, by me, the starter, or the two coaches at the beginning of the exchange zone. One thing that I can say is that many times I hear from coaches who did not bother to volunteer, help out, or those who volunteered and then did not show up or call anyone to let them know they would not be there. I stood in my area from the beginning until the end of the meet, and did not get a break except to eat while the other judge from St Pauls covered for me. I then took back over so he could eat. J Alan Peoples Head Coach Polk County High President: NCTCCCA[/quote]
apeoples wrote:
I was the official in charge of the curve/exchange where the baton was dropped. There were several people who saw it. The starter, the two judges at the beginning of the exchange zone and I. I watched very carefully, and I made a judgment call. The call was that the people who ran into each other were the incoming runners who had already passed the baton.I asked another official who saw it, and we agreed that there was no call for a DQ.

The girl who dropped the baton picket it up and continued to run. I did not see any contact even though I did see one runner have to make a slight adjustment to get around her.I did not see anything that would warrant me DQing anyone at that time.

The person who saw runners banging into others saw something that I did not. I was in position for the entire meet and I saw a minor amount of incidental contact during the day; however, I saw nothing that caused me to question any calls made in my area, by me, the starter, or the two coaches at the beginning of the exchange zone.

One thing that I can say is that many times I hear from coaches who did not bother to volunteer, help out, or those who volunteered and then did not show up or call anyone to let them know they would not
be there. I stood in my area from the beginning until the end of the meet, and did not get a break except to eat while the other judge from St Pauls covered for me. I then took back over so he could eat.

J Alan Peoples
Head Coach
Polk County High
President: NCTCCCA
02/23/2010 3:16:11 PM
User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 99
Everything is a judgement call in the moment. I was positioned just behind the finishline adjacent to the exchange zone. From there I could definitely see quite a bit of contact and frustration during that "dropped baton sequence". From the front where the judges were, it's quite possible that the contact wasn't as obvious. I'm not sure how tight starts are usually called, but there were several times in the distance events where the middle and outside runners cut in immediately. One 1600m #1 seed got interfered with and pushed into the barrier from step one. If that's a rules infraction it definitely cost that young lady several spots in the standings. Is there normally a certain distance before the runners can cut to the inside during indoor meets? I just remember seeing cones in place at other events marking that zone; definitely wasn't anything like that in this event. As far as the lack of eating, the way the events were spaced, I know many athletes that didn't have time to adequately fuel up between events. I was only helping a couple athletes out (I'm not a coach; I just volunteer) and I didn't get to eat until well after the completion of the 1a/2a/3a meet. The kids who ran 2-3 of the distance events had such a quick turnaround that most seemed to be out of gas midway through the 3200m. We all certainly appreciate the help of all the volunteer judges and coaches, but I was disappointed in the lack of rule enforcement in several instances. My runners were not involved in the relays at all; it was only something I watched and wondered about. At this level, I know it seems harsh to DQ someone, but several things just struck me as unfair to the athletes who were paying attention to the rules and check-in policies. I can guarantee you that the DQ's would have been enforced in the outdoor meet. I agree that we need more volunteers to help out at these meets. It seemed to me that this year there was an announcement prior to the meets online though that rules would be enforced strickly and then so many things were overlooked. Maybe that sends a bad message to the kids.
Everything is a judgement call in the moment. I was positioned just behind the finishline adjacent to the exchange zone. From there I could definitely see quite a bit of contact and frustration during that "dropped baton sequence". From the front where the judges were, it's quite possible that the contact wasn't as obvious. I'm not sure how tight starts are usually called, but there were several times in the distance events where the middle and outside runners cut in immediately. One 1600m #1 seed got interfered with and pushed into the barrier from step one. If that's a rules infraction it definitely cost that young lady several spots in the standings. Is there normally a certain distance before the runners can cut to the inside during indoor meets? I just remember seeing cones in place at other events marking that zone; definitely wasn't anything like that in this event. As far as the lack of eating, the way the events were spaced, I know many athletes that didn't have time to adequately fuel up between events. I was only helping a couple athletes out (I'm not a coach; I just volunteer) and I didn't get to eat until well after the completion of the 1a/2a/3a meet. The kids who ran 2-3 of the distance events had such a quick turnaround that most seemed to be out of gas midway through the 3200m. We all certainly appreciate the help of all the volunteer judges and coaches, but I was disappointed in the lack of rule enforcement in several instances. My runners were not involved in the relays at all; it was only something I watched and wondered about. At this level, I know it seems harsh to DQ someone, but several things just struck me as unfair to the athletes who were paying attention to the rules and check-in policies. I can guarantee you that the DQ's would have been enforced in the outdoor meet. I agree that we need more volunteers to help out at these meets. It seemed to me that this year there was an announcement prior to the meets online though that rules would be enforced strickly and then so many things were overlooked. Maybe that sends a bad message to the kids.
02/23/2010 4:06:47 PM
User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 99
Everything is a judgement call in the moment. I was positioned just behind the finishline adjacent to the exchange zone. From there I could definitely see quite a bit of contact and frustration during that "dropped baton sequence". From the front where the judges were, it's quite possible that the contact wasn't as obvious. I'm not sure how tight starts are usually called, but there were several times in the distance events where the middle and outside runners cut in immediately. One 1600m #1 seed got interfered with and pushed into the barrier from step one. If that's a rules infraction it definitely cost that young lady several spots in the standings. Is there normally a certain distance before the runners can cut to the inside during indoor meets? I just remember seeing cones in place at other events marking that zone; definitely wasn't anything like that in this event. As far as the lack of eating, the way the events were spaced, I know many athletes that didn't have time to adequately fuel up between events. I was only helping a couple athletes out (I'm not a coach; I just volunteer) and I didn't get to eat until well after the completion of the 1a/2a/3a meet. The kids who ran 2-3 of the distance events had such a quick turnaround that most seemed to be out of gas midway through the 3200m. We all certainly appreciate the help of all the volunteer judges and coaches, but I was disappointed in the lack of rule enforcement in several instances. My runners were not involved in the relays at all; it was only something I watched and wondered about. At this level, I know it seems harsh to DQ someone, but several things just struck me as unfair to the athletes who were paying attention to the rules and check-in policies. I can guarantee you that the DQ's would have been enforced in the outdoor meet. I agree that we need more volunteers to help out at these meets. It seemed to me that this year there was an announcement prior to the meets online though that rules would be enforced strickly and then so many things were overlooked. Maybe that sends a bad message to the kids.
Everything is a judgement call in the moment. I was positioned just behind the finishline adjacent to the exchange zone. From there I could definitely see quite a bit of contact and frustration during that "dropped baton sequence". From the front where the judges were, it's quite possible that the contact wasn't as obvious. I'm not sure how tight starts are usually called, but there were several times in the distance events where the middle and outside runners cut in immediately. One 1600m #1 seed got interfered with and pushed into the barrier from step one. If that's a rules infraction it definitely cost that young lady several spots in the standings. Is there normally a certain distance before the runners can cut to the inside during indoor meets? I just remember seeing cones in place at other events marking that zone; definitely wasn't anything like that in this event. As far as the lack of eating, the way the events were spaced, I know many athletes that didn't have time to adequately fuel up between events. I was only helping a couple athletes out (I'm not a coach; I just volunteer) and I didn't get to eat until well after the completion of the 1a/2a/3a meet. The kids who ran 2-3 of the distance events had such a quick turnaround that most seemed to be out of gas midway through the 3200m. We all certainly appreciate the help of all the volunteer judges and coaches, but I was disappointed in the lack of rule enforcement in several instances. My runners were not involved in the relays at all; it was only something I watched and wondered about. At this level, I know it seems harsh to DQ someone, but several things just struck me as unfair to the athletes who were paying attention to the rules and check-in policies. I can guarantee you that the DQ's would have been enforced in the outdoor meet. I agree that we need more volunteers to help out at these meets. It seemed to me that this year there was an announcement prior to the meets online though that rules would be enforced strickly and then so many things were overlooked. Maybe that sends a bad message to the kids.
02/23/2010 10:49:54 PM
Power User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 191
I agree that a specific time schedule needs to be in place prior to the state meet in May. I know at my invitational I do a time schedule and all the coaches really like the schedule as their athletes know exactly when they will run and can gage when to warmup. If we get a head we wait for the time. Their are so many more positives to having a time schedule not only from the athletes perspective, but from the spectators view too. Again, we need to get this implemented before State in May. Also, about the NCTCCCA I tried to sign up and be apart of it this past summer to try and get some 'new blood' in there andto express some new ideas that a lot of coaches have told me about. Well, they never cashed my check still to this date and no response from them about that even after I have sent them numerous e-mails. I guess they don't want new blood in their group as they mention each summer. Things need to change as I have coached in another state and this state is SO far behind in some areas its embarrassing. If its true about DePaul being the only voice for all of us coaches in terms of the NCHSAA, then the system is SERIOUSLY IN TROUBLE. It might not be the political thing to do by stepping up and expressing your voice and by what happened to coach george no wonder coaches don't speak up more. Are we not allowed to speak up and if we do are we going to be like coach george and get regionals taken away?
I agree that a specific time schedule needs to be in place prior to the state meet in May. I know at my invitational I do a time schedule and all the coaches really like the schedule as their athletes know exactly when they will run and can gage when to warmup. If we get a head we wait for the time. Their are so many more positives to having a time schedule not only from the athletes perspective, but from the spectators view too. Again, we need to get this implemented before State in May.

Also, about the NCTCCCA I tried to sign up and be apart of it this past summer to try and get some 'new blood' in there andto express some new ideas that a lot of coaches have told me about. Well, they never cashed my check still to this date and no response from them about that even after I have sent them numerous e-mails. I guess they don't want new blood in their group as they mention each summer. Things need to change as I have coached in another state and this state is SO far behind in some areas its embarrassing. If its true about DePaul being the only voice for all of us coaches in terms of the NCHSAA, then the system is SERIOUSLY IN TROUBLE. It might not be the political thing to do by stepping up and expressing your voice and by what happened to coach george no wonder coaches don't speak up more. Are we not allowed to speak up and if we do are we going to be like coach george and get regionals taken away?
02/24/2010 10:53:35 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 185
There are a couple of issues at work here that actually go hand-in-hand: the quick turnarounds are because of the size of the meets; i.e. indoor track was not big enough to split up into classifications, and yes, most of the schools that run indoor track are from the Piedmont and Eastern parts of the state and since these parts of the state have more 3-A and 4-A schools they do tend to win a lot of events....that's just the demographics of our state; track is a bigger sport in the Eastern part of the state except for some notable exceptions like in the Asheville area, Polk County, Watauga (who didn't get to compete because of weather issues...let's remember them in our prayers and hope they get out of school before next school year :-] ) and a few others. The meet was broken up because a few coaches wanted to pad State Title stats; but be that as it may, the other reason that the meet is broken up is because our LONE facility in the state is so small....again that is just a reality. However, I am such an old-timer that I remember when there was only ONE meet in the state; in the Old Tin Can, and we trained all winter just to run that meet.(By the way, the dimensions of the Old Can is where the big columns are in the new building.) So....we have come a long way; BUT, we have a long way to go, and dialog has to be open and even the shortcomings have to be discussed out in the open. That is the only way that any true progress can and/or will made. Just some thoughts.
There are a couple of issues at work here that actually go hand-in-hand: the quick turnarounds are because of the size of the meets; i.e. indoor track was not big enough to split up into classifications, and yes, most of the schools that run indoor track are from the Piedmont and Eastern parts of the state and since these parts of the state have more 3-A and 4-A schools they do tend to win a lot of events....that's just the demographics of our state; track is a bigger sport in the Eastern part of the state except for some notable exceptions like in the Asheville area, Polk County, Watauga (who didn't get to compete because of weather issues...let's remember them in our prayers and hope they get out of school before next school year ) and a few others. The meet was broken up because a few coaches wanted to pad State Title stats; but be that as it may, the other reason that the meet is broken up is because our LONE facility in the state is so small....again that is just a reality. However, I am such an old-timer that I remember when there was only ONE meet in the state; in the Old Tin Can, and we trained all winter just to run that meet.(By the way, the dimensions of the Old Can is where the big columns are in the new building.) So....we have come a long way; BUT, we have a long way to go, and dialog has to be open and even the shortcomings have to be discussed out in the open. That is the only way that any true progress can and/or will made. Just some thoughts.
02/24/2010 11:08:00 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 49
I thought long and hard before posting this comment. I don't agree with attacks on people in forums such as this, especially when people do not know the entire story. I will refrain from attacking any specific people, but I do want those who criticized the 4A State Meet and NCTCCCA Executive Director DePaul Mittman to hear from me. I am Alton Tyre, Head Coach at Southeast Guilford. I am a proud member and President Emeritis of the NCTCCCA. I along with DePaul Mittman, George Berbella, and several other coaches helped to found the Association so that we would have a similar influence on decisions regarding track and field that football and other coaches associations have. We have been enormously successful on a variety of issues from (1) 8 place scoring at State meets (2) Split Indoor Championships and (3) The January Clinic with top clinicians to increase our knowledge to become better coaches and two opportunities (January and July) to become a certified official. There are many more things I could list, but I think you get the point. An important point that no one mentioned is that our Association like all of the other specific coaches association, falls under the auspices of the North Carolina Coaches Association. All recommendations go through that organization first to be sent to the NCHSAA. Do we advocate for our points, yes we do! We are not some of type of Gestapo or KGB organization with secretive proceedings. All coaches are invited to join and participate in a variety of ways. I have personally written down ideas from many coaches across the state and submitted them for discussion. One comment was that some coaches feel they are being "belittled" by members of our association and if some of you include me in this, I cannot stop you. There is never any intent to belittle any coach, but I do not apologize for comments in response to some issues or ideas that have been brought up. Although I don't pretend to know everything about track and field in North Carolina, I have a tremendous amount of experience running major meets in this state including 12 conference meets, 12 invitationals, 5 regional meets,and being State Meet Director or Co-Director for 7 state meets. I have served in every capacity from assistant clerk to head field events judge at the State Meet before I became a director. This experience gives me the prospective to make some comments. I did not witness any of the 1A/2A/3A meet, but I worked the entirety of the 4A Meet checking spikes and uniforms in the clerking area. First of all, Chris Lassiter (Meet Director)and the staff at Ben L. Smith and DePaul Mittman deserve your thanks. I am in the loop and people are not falling all over themselves to run state meets. It can be a very thankless job. One very noticeable problem with the meet was the lack of officials in some areas. Several people commented on this. The problem was that officials were assigned but did not do their job even though they got passes to be in the infield. Some of the people were calling splits, getting steps straight, and going over other strategy with their athletes. In some cases last minute volunteers had to be recruited and some coaches from the previous meet stayed to assist in the 4A meet. Coaches often say I want to coach my athletes. I would like to coach my athletes, too. I had four athletes in the meet and I saw one race because I was checking spikes and uniforms. Suppose I or the other coaches who ran events or served as meet officials, took the same approach. Everyone would be standing around waiting for the meet to start. For whatever we think about it, we must self-officiate our sport. In the years I have run conference, regional, and state meets, my athletes usually see very little of me. My assistants do a lot of the coaching because of all of the preparation that goes into preparing for a big meet. No one mentioned that. Part of coaching your athletes is to coach them so well during the week that they do not need you on meet day. It is also part of coaching to teach athletes the order of events. It is also part of your job as a coach to read all of the information leading up to the meet. I had to tell numerous athletes that they could not perform in needlepoint or christmas tree spikes. This has been the rule every since we have been at the UNC facility and it is the same way at A & T. There is no excuse for this and this contributed to some problems in the clerking area with athletes coming in and out to change or remove spikes. Also, it doesn't help when coaches refuse to volunteer to work, or volunteer and get their pass and do not officiate. It is my experience that many of these coaches are the same ones that are the first to complain. If all of the coaches assigned or that volunteered had actually done their jobs, would we have had some of the problems that were cited by some on this site? Probably not! Sometimes, because of the lack of coaches willing to work, some meet officials have to do several duties. Not only Chris and DePaul, but all of the coaches who "actually" worked the state meet deserve your thanks not all of the criticism that I have read. The coaches who worked in the clerking area were tremendous. Limited space in the clerking area makes clerking at the Indoor Meet a challenge. With the exception of the coaches working and judging the exchange zones, where were the curve judges during the last part of the meet. I see the same thing in Greensboro every year regarding regionals, everyone expects to run but a lot of schools don't want to host, because "it is so much work". Sometimes the NCHSAA is looking for host schools just months before the regionals. How much work is it for the people who host and give your athletes the opportunity to perform? Finally, DePaul Mittman is owed a huge thank you from all track coaches in North Carolina. Over the years, DePaul has worked tirelessly to improve track and field in North Carolina. I call him my "track brother". I have learned a lot from him and have worked side by side with him for 15 years. Not only does DePaul put in the time, but his family as well. If you go to the January clinic, the Mittman family is working registration, working on the lunch, the Friday night social, and whatever else DePaul needs them to do. His family also works at the State Meet. He provides logistical assistance for all of the state meets even though he is 2A. He is the overall state meet director because he is in Greensboro and has unique access to officials at A & T and UNC. This idea that DePaul makes all of the decisions regarding track and field in this state is just not true. We frequently get e-mails from him to members of the board regarding ideas or concerns expressed by coaches from across the state. We work to come to a consensus when these issues come up. Sometimes it takes years before a particular idea is accepted (example moving up the time of the Friday state Outdoor meet). So it is important to continue to push ideas that you feel strongly about. Also, depending on the issue and the part of the state it is, there are several "go to coaches" and ADs that the NCHSAA consults with. There are also state and regional directors meetings in Chapel Hill every year where issues are hashed out. When these meetings are held, there are at least 16 or more coaches and ADs present. One of these days, DePaul, myself and a number of gray haired coaches that you see at every major track meet, will no longer be around. We need the next generation of coaches to be ready to replace us. I started as an assistant clerk at Carolina in 1995. Once you get on the inside of what it takes to run a state meet, maybe some people won't be so critical. There is much more I could say (especially on the issue of time schedules and specific issues in the clerking area) but I find another way to address those issues.
I thought long and hard before posting this comment. I don't agree with attacks on people in forums such as this, especially when people do not know the entire story. I will refrain from attacking any specific people, but I do want those who criticized the 4A State Meet and NCTCCCA Executive Director DePaul Mittman to hear from me. I am Alton Tyre, Head Coach at Southeast Guilford. I am a proud member and President Emeritis of the NCTCCCA. I along with DePaul Mittman, George Berbella, and several other coaches helped to found the Association so that we would have a similar influence on decisions regarding track and field that football and other coaches associations have. We have been enormously successful on a variety of issues from (1) 8 place scoring at State meets (2) Split Indoor Championships and (3) The January Clinic with top clinicians to increase our knowledge to become better coaches and two opportunities (January and July) to become a certified official. There are many more things I could list, but I think you get the point. An important point that no one mentioned is that our Association like all of the other specific coaches association, falls under the auspices of the North Carolina Coaches Association. All recommendations go through that organization first to be sent to the NCHSAA. Do we advocate for our points, yes we do! We are not some of type of Gestapo or KGB organization with secretive proceedings. All coaches are invited to join and participate in a variety of ways. I have personally written down ideas from many coaches across the state and submitted them for discussion. One comment was that some coaches feel they are being "belittled" by members of our association and if some of you include me in this, I cannot stop you. There is never any intent to belittle any coach, but I do not apologize for comments in response to some issues or ideas that have been brought up. Although I don't pretend to know everything about track and field in North Carolina, I have a tremendous amount of experience running major meets in this state including 12 conference meets, 12 invitationals, 5 regional meets,and being State Meet Director or Co-Director for 7 state meets. I have served in every capacity from assistant clerk to head field events judge at the State Meet before I became a director. This experience gives me the prospective to make some comments. I did not witness any of the 1A/2A/3A meet, but I worked the entirety of the 4A Meet checking spikes and uniforms in the clerking area. First of all, Chris Lassiter (Meet Director)and the staff at Ben L. Smith and DePaul Mittman deserve your thanks. I am in the loop and people are not falling all over themselves to run state meets. It can be a very thankless job. One very noticeable problem with the meet was the lack of officials in some areas. Several people commented on this. The problem was that officials were assigned but did not do their job even though they got passes to be in the infield. Some of the people were calling splits, getting steps straight, and going over other strategy with their athletes. In some cases last minute volunteers had to be recruited and some coaches from the previous meet stayed to assist in the 4A meet. Coaches often say I want to coach my athletes. I would like to coach my athletes, too. I had four athletes in the meet and I saw one race because I was checking spikes and uniforms. Suppose I or the other coaches who ran events or served as meet officials, took the same approach. Everyone would be standing around waiting for the meet to start. For whatever we think about it, we must self-officiate our sport. In the years I have run conference, regional, and state meets, my athletes usually see very little of me. My assistants do a lot of the coaching because of all of the preparation that goes into preparing for a big meet. No one mentioned that. Part of coaching your athletes is to coach them so well during the week that they do not need you on meet day. It is also part of coaching to teach athletes the order of events. It is also part of your job as a coach to read all of the information leading up to the meet. I had to tell numerous athletes that they could not perform in needlepoint or christmas tree spikes. This has been the rule every since we have been at the UNC facility and it is the same way at A & T. There is no excuse for this and this contributed to some problems in the clerking area with athletes coming in and out to change or remove spikes. Also, it doesn't help when coaches refuse to volunteer to work, or volunteer and get their pass and do not officiate. It is my experience that many of these coaches are the same ones that are the first to complain. If all of the coaches assigned or that volunteered had actually done their jobs, would we have had some of the problems that were cited by some on this site? Probably not! Sometimes, because of the lack of coaches willing to work, some meet officials have to do several duties. Not only Chris and DePaul, but all of the coaches who "actually" worked the state meet deserve your thanks not all of the criticism that I have read. The coaches who worked in the clerking area were tremendous. Limited space in the clerking area makes clerking at the Indoor Meet a challenge. With the exception of the coaches working and judging the exchange zones, where were the curve judges during the last part of the meet. I see the same thing in Greensboro every year regarding regionals, everyone expects to run but a lot of schools don't want to host, because "it is so much work". Sometimes the NCHSAA is looking for host schools just months before the regionals. How much work is it for the people who host and give your athletes the opportunity to perform?
Finally, DePaul Mittman is owed a huge thank you from all track coaches in North Carolina. Over the years, DePaul has worked tirelessly to improve track and field in North Carolina. I call him my "track brother". I have learned a lot from him and have worked side by side with him for 15 years. Not only does DePaul put in the time, but his family as well. If you go to the January clinic, the Mittman family is working registration, working on the lunch, the Friday night social, and whatever else DePaul needs them to do. His family also works at the State Meet. He provides logistical assistance for all of the state meets even though he is 2A. He is the overall state meet director because he is in Greensboro and has unique access to officials at A & T and UNC. This idea that DePaul makes all of the decisions regarding track and field in this state is just not true. We frequently get e-mails from him to members of the board regarding ideas or concerns expressed by coaches from across the state. We work to come to a consensus when these issues come up. Sometimes it takes years before a particular idea is accepted (example moving up the time of the Friday state Outdoor meet). So it is important to continue to push ideas that you feel strongly about. Also, depending on the issue and the part of the state it is, there are several "go to coaches" and ADs that the NCHSAA consults with. There are also state and regional directors meetings in Chapel Hill every year where issues are hashed out. When these meetings are held, there are at least 16 or more coaches and ADs present. One of these days, DePaul, myself and a number of gray haired coaches that you see at every major track meet, will no longer be around. We need the next generation of coaches to be ready to replace us. I started as an assistant clerk at Carolina in 1995. Once you get on the inside of what it takes to run a state meet, maybe some people won't be so critical. There is much more I could say (especially on the issue of time schedules and specific issues in the clerking area) but I find another way to address those issues.
02/24/2010 11:21:48 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 49
I didn't mean to do a second post so soon but I must to respond to the comment that Indoor Track is not big enough to split into two meets and that it was done to pad state championships. Nothing could be further from the truth. When the idea first came up, the NCTCCCA surveyed the number of schools in all classifications that had indoor track. It became obvious that there were enough 4A schools participating to support their own meet. One positive result of this is that more 1A/2A/3A teams are fielding teams because they can compete with schools comparative in size. The original proposal was to do one meet as a late afternoon/night meet on Friday, with the other meet on Saturday. This was unable to be worked out with UNC. I agree with the poster that one indoor facility is a problem. However, the other issue involved the size of the combined meet. The UNC facility was not built as a spectator friendly facility and the numbers at the combined meet were creating major space issues and there is a limit to the number of athletes the facility is supposed to hold before fire regulations become a problem. It would be nice if some of the energy directed towards this discussion could be used to generate interest in building additional indoor facilities in the state. This is also something some members of the NCTCAA (independent of the association)are working on.
I didn't mean to do a second post so soon but I must to respond to the comment that Indoor Track is not big enough to split into two meets and that it was done to pad state championships. Nothing could be further from the truth. When the idea first came up, the NCTCCCA surveyed the number of schools in all classifications that had indoor track. It became obvious that there were enough 4A schools participating to support their own meet. One positive result of this is that more 1A/2A/3A teams are fielding teams because they can compete with schools comparative in size. The original proposal was to do one meet as a late afternoon/night meet on Friday, with the other meet on Saturday. This was unable to be worked out with UNC. I agree with the poster that one indoor facility is a problem. However, the other issue involved the size of the combined meet. The UNC facility was not built as a spectator friendly facility and the numbers at the combined meet were creating major space issues and there is a limit to the number of athletes the facility is supposed to hold before fire regulations become a problem. It would be nice if some of the energy directed towards this discussion could be used to generate interest in building additional indoor facilities in the state. This is also something some members of the NCTCAA (independent of the association)are working on.
02/24/2010 11:58:20 AM
User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
I have read all of the above comments which appear to be from coaches and first have to say, as a parent, I had no idea that coaches worked the meets (obviously, our coach does not). I guess I am shocked more than anything, as I believe the coaches should be doing that...coach the athletes and we as parents, need to volunteer to run the meets. This is what happens in other sports-so confused why not track and field. My experience comes from swimming, both high school and collegiate level. In order to judge, you do have to become certified, which it appears this way in track and field. I know at times it is an issue at times to get parents to do this; however, I would hope parents would step to the plate and do this to support their children, school and community. For what it is worth....
I have read all of the above comments which appear to be from coaches and first have to say, as a parent, I had no idea that coaches worked the meets (obviously, our coach does not). I guess I am shocked more than anything, as I believe the coaches should be doing that...coach the athletes and we as parents, need to volunteer to run the meets. This is what happens in other sports-so confused why not track and field. My experience comes from swimming, both high school and collegiate level. In order to judge, you do have to become certified, which it appears this way in track and field. I know at times it is an issue at times to get parents to do this; however, I would hope parents would step to the plate and do this to support their children, school and community. For what it is worth....
02/24/2010 2:05:49 PM
Coach
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Coach Tyre - Thank you for sharing a viewpoint from the coaches' association. Would you care to elaborate on your thoughts about a time schedule, be it for the indoor or outdoor meet? That seems to be a common area of concern among coaches. While this message board certainly is a great place to discuss the ongoing issues for our sport, any action, certainly at this point, would need to go through the NCTCCCA and NCHSAA. If there is a general feeling of discontent with the state championship meets as they currently are, maybe the coaches' association could lead an effort to re-evaluate the state meet formats and discuss possible changes to make it a better experience for our student-athletes. Otherwise, this is all just academic.
Coach Tyre - Thank you for sharing a viewpoint from the coaches' association. Would you care to elaborate on your thoughts about a time schedule, be it for the indoor or outdoor meet? That seems to be a common area of concern among coaches.

While this message board certainly is a great place to discuss the ongoing issues for our sport, any action, certainly at this point, would need to go through the NCTCCCA and NCHSAA. If there is a general feeling of discontent with the state championship meets as they currently are, maybe the coaches' association could lead an effort to re-evaluate the state meet formats and discuss possible changes to make it a better experience for our student-athletes. Otherwise, this is all just academic.
02/24/2010 6:53:16 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 110
I see everyone wanting a time schedule for the state meet. I have been to meets in the past with a time schedule. After a while it turns into rolling schedule because they are already behind. So if this did happen you would have to calculate the timing of every event. The other thing is having adequate help and volunteers is the only way a Time Schedule would work smoothly and that is the main issue. We lack the volunteers and officials.
I see everyone wanting a time schedule for the state meet. I have been to meets in the past with a time schedule. After a while it turns into rolling schedule because they are already behind. So if this did happen you would have to calculate the timing of every event. The other thing is having adequate help and volunteers is the only way a Time Schedule would work smoothly and that is the main issue. We lack the volunteers and officials.
02/24/2010 7:30:20 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2420
Coach Tyre is absolutely right that DePaul has worked his butt off for our sport. I want to be on the record that I have no problem with DePaul as a person; in fact, I think he's amazing. The same goes for every member of the NCTCCCA board of directors that I know personally; many of them are my role models and inspiration. Coach Tyre is also dead-on about the difficulty of officiating track meets, and specifically those at UNC. Anybody who has been to one of my 4A outdoor meets knows that clerking is consistent and works almost flawlessly there. At UNC, it is always a nightmare. If you've never done it, you have no idea how difficult and stressful it can be. (Although I guess someone else will get to find out this spring, as my crew won't be there.) My problem is with the NCTCCCA board of directors collectively, not with the individuals that compose it. Sometimes a group of high-quality individuals can still lose their collective way. In fact, I tend to think that's how the US government has fallen so far; mostly good people, with mostly good intentions, who have nonetheless gone badly astray. Please keep in mind what Coach Tyre said: "We are not some of type of Gestapo or KGB organization with secretive proceedings." My problems with the NCTCCCA are as follows: 1. In 7 years of membership, I have NEVER received a notice or schedule of when the board of directors meets. I have NEVER received an agenda of what they plan to discuss. I have NEVER received a report after their meetings of what they decided. How can you represent the views of the coaches, if the coaches don't even know what you're discussing? The board of directors is not supposed to be an insulated group, but none of them have ever solicited my opinion, or that of any of the coaches I work with week in and week out. After 7 years of trying to get my voice heard, I gave up. 2. All of the true power of the organization is concentrated in the hands of three people, all of whom live in Guilford County, and all of whom have lifetime appointments to their positions without any provision for their removal if the members of the association wish it. This flies completely in the face of all notions of a democratically elected, representative body. 3. The office of the President, which is voted for by the membership, has only a one year term and has duties that are almost completely ceremonial. If you don't believe me, go to their website (www.nctccca.org) and read the constitution yourself. 4. The board of directors modified the constitution of the NCTCCCA in March of 2005 to create these lifetime positions. According to their own constitution, only a two-thirds vote of the membership at a January meeting can amend the constitution. How can you trust a leadership that doesn't follow its own constitution? 5. Those few votes that are actually taken to the "entire membership" are done so at the end of the two-day January clinic, at a business meeting that is sparsely attended because everyone is tired and has already spent so much time away from their family. The meeting is listed on the schedule as "Contemporary Issues in NC Track & Field," but it is actually the annual meeting of the membership and the only forum in which officers are elected. I don't know if this is deliberate or accidental, but to disguise the purpose of the only opportunity coaches have to vote on issues is terrible. 6. The constitution of the NCTCCCA says that only one-tenth of the membership needs to be present in order to make a binding decision, including electing officcers or amending the constitution. A "majority" vote is actually a majority of one-tenth of the NCTCCCA; same for a two-thirds vote. This is ridiculous! If the board of directors can't get the voice of at least half of the members, on important issues, then they have FAILED TO REPRESENT THEIR MEMBERS. 7. One entire region of the state currently has no representation on the board of directors; four of the other 14 directors are former presidents of the association, as is the executive director. The two current vice presidents (who are lined up to be the next two presidents) are former board members. At least there's one recycling program in North Carolina that actually works! One of the current board positions went unfilled at the January meeting, when the person holding it was elected to a vice-president spot. Why not let the membership vote on that position? 8. The members of the board of directors have four-year terms, but somehow all of the terms expire in 2011 or 2012. That means no new directors have been elected by the membership in the last two years. These positions need to be two-year, and they need to be staggered so that every year the coaches in each region have some say in their representation, even if they continue to elect the same person. There is absolutely no reason why the NCTCCCA so rarely polls the entire membership to find out their opinion. In fact, there is no reason why the NCTCCCA doesn't conduct major votes by sending out e-mails to all coaches (as some other sport-specific coaching associations do). The board of directors of the NCTCCCA has become an "insider's club" that can only be joined by the invitation of those already in it. I know, because I tried to get on the board three times, and was voted down BY THE CURRENT BOARD MEMBERS each and every time, despite significant support from the general membership of the association. On one such occasion, I had more votes for me than any other board member that was elected at that meeting, but I had even more votes against me (several people at the meeting only voted on my position, and abstained from the other votes). Coach Tyre, if you want the next generation of coaches to be ready, LET THEM IN ON THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. If you really want to represent ALL of the coaches of this state, there is only one clear course: return the NCTCCCA to the democratic institution that it was originally intended to be. That means eliminating the positions of the executive director and assistant executive director; eliminating the lifetime terms of the secretary and treasurer; giving the president back those duties that were taken away; giving the president a 2- or 4-year term of office; and conducting all major decisions with the input of at least half of the membership of the association. This is the minimum it would take for me to even consider rejoining the NCTCCCA, after all the times I have been ignored, insulted, shouted down, or (yes) belittled by the directors.
Coach Tyre is absolutely right that DePaul has worked his butt off for our sport. I want to be on the record that I have no problem with DePaul as a person; in fact, I think he's amazing. The same goes for every member of the NCTCCCA board of directors that I know personally; many of them are my role models and inspiration.

Coach Tyre is also dead-on about the difficulty of officiating track meets, and specifically those at UNC. Anybody who has been to one of my 4A outdoor meets knows that clerking is consistent and works almost flawlessly there. At UNC, it is always a nightmare. If you've never done it, you have no idea how difficult and stressful it can be. (Although I guess someone else will get to find out this spring, as my crew won't be there.)

My problem is with the NCTCCCA board of directors collectively, not with the individuals that compose it. Sometimes a group of high-quality individuals can still lose their collective way. In fact, I tend to think that's how the US government has fallen so far; mostly good people, with mostly good intentions, who have nonetheless gone badly astray.

Please keep in mind what Coach Tyre said: "We are not some of type of Gestapo or KGB organization with secretive proceedings." My problems with the NCTCCCA are as follows:

1. In 7 years of membership, I have NEVER received a notice or schedule of when the board of directors meets. I have NEVER received an agenda of what they plan to discuss. I have NEVER received a report after their meetings of what they decided. How can you represent the views of the coaches, if the coaches don't even know what you're discussing? The board of directors is not supposed to be an insulated group, but none of them have ever solicited my opinion, or that of any of the coaches I work with week in and week out. After 7 years of trying to get my voice heard, I gave up.

2. All of the true power of the organization is concentrated in the hands of three people, all of whom live in Guilford County, and all of whom have lifetime appointments to their positions without any provision for their removal if the members of the association wish it. This flies completely in the face of all notions of a democratically elected, representative body.

3. The office of the President, which is voted for by the membership, has only a one year term and has duties that are almost completely ceremonial. If you don't believe me, go to their website (www.nctccca.org) and read the constitution yourself.

4. The board of directors modified the constitution of the NCTCCCA in March of 2005 to create these lifetime positions. According to their own constitution, only a two-thirds vote of the membership at a January meeting can amend the constitution. How can you trust a leadership that doesn't follow its own constitution?

5. Those few votes that are actually taken to the "entire membership" are done so at the end of the two-day January clinic, at a business meeting that is sparsely attended because everyone is tired and has already spent so much time away from their family. The meeting is listed on the schedule as "Contemporary Issues in NC Track & Field," but it is actually the annual meeting of the membership and the only forum in which officers are elected. I don't know if this is deliberate or accidental, but to disguise the purpose of the only opportunity coaches have to vote on issues is terrible.

6. The constitution of the NCTCCCA says that only one-tenth of the membership needs to be present in order to make a binding decision, including electing officcers or amending the constitution. A "majority" vote is actually a majority of one-tenth of the NCTCCCA; same for a two-thirds vote. This is ridiculous! If the board of directors can't get the voice of at least half of the members, on important issues, then they have FAILED TO REPRESENT THEIR MEMBERS.

7. One entire region of the state currently has no representation on the board of directors; four of the other 14 directors are former presidents of the association, as is the executive director. The two current vice presidents (who are lined up to be the next two presidents) are former board members. At least there's one recycling program in North Carolina that actually works! One of the current board positions went unfilled at the January meeting, when the person holding it was elected to a vice-president spot. Why not let the membership vote on that position?

8. The members of the board of directors have four-year terms, but somehow all of the terms expire in 2011 or 2012. That means no new directors have been elected by the membership in the last two years. These positions need to be two-year, and they need to be staggered so that every year the coaches in each region have some say in their representation, even if they continue to elect the same person.

There is absolutely no reason why the NCTCCCA so rarely polls the entire membership to find out their opinion. In fact, there is no reason why the NCTCCCA doesn't conduct major votes by sending out e-mails to all coaches (as some other sport-specific coaching associations do).

The board of directors of the NCTCCCA has become an "insider's club" that can only be joined by the invitation of those already in it. I know, because I tried to get on the board three times, and was voted down BY THE CURRENT BOARD MEMBERS each and every time, despite significant support from the general membership of the association. On one such occasion, I had more votes for me than any other board member that was elected at that meeting, but I had even more votes against me (several people at the meeting only voted on my position, and abstained from the other votes).

Coach Tyre, if you want the next generation of coaches to be ready, LET THEM IN ON THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. If you really want to represent ALL of the coaches of this state, there is only one clear course: return the NCTCCCA to the democratic institution that it was originally intended to be. That means eliminating the positions of the executive director and assistant executive director; eliminating the lifetime terms of the secretary and treasurer; giving the president back those duties that were taken away; giving the president a 2- or 4-year term of office; and conducting all major decisions with the input of at least half of the membership of the association. This is the minimum it would take for me to even consider rejoining the NCTCCCA, after all the times I have been ignored, insulted, shouted down, or (yes) belittled by the directors.
02/25/2010 10:41:15 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 185
The hazards of e-mail!!! Coach Tyre and everyone else; the comment about padding State Title stats was meant to be a joke....anyone that has been involved with track knows that the real reason that the Meet is the way it is, is that the Tin Can is a limited capacity facility and that WAY too many teams are competing now. That is a good problem to have....participation is way up. The problem with building an indoor facility is that the cost is HIGH; to have a quality indoor arena with sufficient seating, restrooms, and concessions is in the multi-millions....it may be cost prohibitive in this economy.....?? By, the way, DePaul came and got me out of the crowd to help with checking uniforms and spikes during the 1-A...3-A meet even though I was going to only be there for a limited time. I helped for a while (until after the 500's) and then I left...I was riding with someone or I would have stayed longer. Again, our (read Coaches) organization still has some bugs but we have to be constructive in our criticism or we will build too many barriers between ourselves and our sport and our kids will suffer. Again, Sorry about the misplaced attempt at humor; I figured you guys would know I was joking...but you know what they say about assumptions, sorrry. Robert McGimpsey, Jr.
The hazards of e-mail!!! Coach Tyre and everyone else; the comment about padding State Title stats was meant to be a joke....anyone that has been involved with track knows that the real reason that the Meet is the way it is, is that the Tin Can is a limited capacity facility and that WAY too many teams are competing now. That is a good problem to have....participation is way up. The problem with building an indoor facility is that the cost is HIGH; to have a quality indoor arena with sufficient seating, restrooms, and concessions is in the multi-millions....it may be cost prohibitive in this economy.....?? By, the way, DePaul came and got me out of the crowd to help with checking uniforms and spikes during the 1-A...3-A meet even though I was going to only be there for a limited time. I helped for a while (until after the 500's) and then I left...I was riding with someone or I would have stayed longer. Again, our (read Coaches) organization still has some bugs but we have to be constructive in our criticism or we will build too many barriers between ourselves and our sport and our kids will suffer. Again, Sorry about the misplaced attempt at humor; I figured you guys would know I was joking...but you know what they say about assumptions, sorrry.

Robert McGimpsey, Jr.

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.