NC 1A/2A Indoor Track Qualify Standards for state meet 2019
01/18/2019 3:38:57 AM
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I've Long complained about the qualifying standards for the 55M in the 1A/2A indoor state Meet. How do they calculate the standards for this particular race in the lower divisions? Most schools during indoor have to share athletes with basketball and cheerleading. We do not have the luxury of having 1000 plus kids to choose from. With that being said are we really cool with only having enough athletes for less than 1 heat in this event? Can someone explain that too? Things do not add up to me.. How do you promote growth in one hand and have an unattainable standard for most of the division in another? Just a question..
I've Long complained about the qualifying standards for the 55M in the 1A/2A indoor state Meet. How do they calculate the standards for this particular race in the lower divisions? Most schools during indoor have to share athletes with basketball and cheerleading. We do not have the luxury of having 1000 plus kids to choose from. With that being said are we really cool with only having enough athletes for less than 1 heat in this event? Can someone explain that too? Things do not add up to me.. How do you promote growth in one hand and have an unattainable standard for most of the division in another? Just a question..
01/19/2019 3:04:42 AM
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What does the state do if only 1 athlete qualifies? Extend invitations to top 16 times to compete at State meet? I believe 6.74 to 6.64 is bit extreme but attainable by "full time" track athletes.
What does the state do if only 1 athlete qualifies? Extend invitations to top 16 times to compete at State meet? I believe 6.74 to 6.64 is bit extreme but attainable by "full time" track athletes.
01/21/2019 2:48:58 PM
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@ninjazx6r1 mannn that one athlete will run against himself which is sad. But hey with the temperatures dropping so does the polar bear meet times
@ninjazx6r1 mannn that one athlete will run against himself which is sad. But hey with the temperatures dropping so does the polar bear meet times
01/21/2019 2:58:54 PM
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@tonydawg9 No doubt on the Polar Bear mafness!
@tonydawg9 No doubt on the Polar Bear mafness!
01/21/2019 6:05:01 PM
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@tonydawg9 Nine kids have qualified, correct? All those 6.64h look like rounded up 6.31-6.40 hand times. To your point, it seems like 6.74 was a fairer mark.
@tonydawg9

Nine kids have qualified, correct? All those 6.64h look like rounded up 6.31-6.40 hand times. To your point, it seems like 6.74 was a fairer mark.
01/22/2019 12:05:26 AM
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My personal wish is that we go straight top 16. Like NCAA does now. No standards. Just top 16 or whatever number people want qualifies. Personally I say top 16 or top 24.
My personal wish is that we go straight top 16. Like NCAA does now. No standards. Just top 16 or whatever number people want qualifies. Personally I say top 16 or top 24.
01/22/2019 9:20:50 AM
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I can tell you directly as I am the current president of the NCTCCCA and oversaw the time adjustment discussions for state qualifying that occurred at this past summer's Board of Directors meeting (as we do every 2 years). We looked at the number of qualifiers at last year's meets in each event. We then looked at how many of those qualifiers would be returning this year. From there we had to also look at those that were close to making the mark. Also we took a look at the historical performances. In the 55M on the guys' side, over the last 4 years there has been on average 25.8 qualifiers (25, 24, 31, 26) at the 6.74 mark. It was clear an adjustment had to be made. So that is how we decided to drop one tenth of a second. This process was repeated for every event. The realignment did cause issues across the divisions, in particular for the 3A meet as it became incredibly bloated and thus saw some the of the deepest cuts. Case in point, at the 3A Indoor meet we had 11 events with 30+ qualifiers and overall had 200 more qualifiers than the previous year. If you would like to add any input please be a part of the NCTCCCA by attending the general session each summer which is after the rules certification or our annual winter meeting. Due to weather issues the winter meeting was delayed this year but we will be meeting at Dudley High School in Greensboro on February 10th at 3 pm in the auxiliary gym.
I can tell you directly as I am the current president of the NCTCCCA and oversaw the time adjustment discussions for state qualifying that occurred at this past summer's Board of Directors meeting (as we do every 2 years). We looked at the number of qualifiers at last year's meets in each event. We then looked at how many of those qualifiers would be returning this year. From there we had to also look at those that were close to making the mark. Also we took a look at the historical performances. In the 55M on the guys' side, over the last 4 years there has been on average 25.8 qualifiers (25, 24, 31, 26) at the 6.74 mark. It was clear an adjustment had to be made. So that is how we decided to drop one tenth of a second.

This process was repeated for every event. The realignment did cause issues across the divisions, in particular for the 3A meet as it became incredibly bloated and thus saw some the of the deepest cuts. Case in point, at the 3A Indoor meet we had 11 events with 30+ qualifiers and overall had 200 more qualifiers than the previous year.

If you would like to add any input please be a part of the NCTCCCA by attending the general session each summer which is after the rules certification or our annual winter meeting. Due to weather issues the winter meeting was delayed this year but we will be meeting at Dudley High School in Greensboro on February 10th at 3 pm in the auxiliary gym.
01/22/2019 12:13:24 PM
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@jds0130 the NCAA rule does sound like the right idea. But there is no way it would work currently. The NCAA is all under FAT Timing where you can ensure the athletes times are correct. I can see an athlete running a FAT 6.65 for the 55m Dash and being bounced out of the state meet as the 17th athlete to multiple kids at 6.64 hand-timed that have never gotten close to the mark other than that one meet. If FAT Timing was available and cost efficient throughout the state then I think considering your method would make more sense. However, the format would be really exciting and would change how athletes and coaches took the indoor season. Jason
@jds0130 the NCAA rule does sound like the right idea. But there is no way it would work currently. The NCAA is all under FAT Timing where you can ensure the athletes times are correct. I can see an athlete running a FAT 6.65 for the 55m Dash and being bounced out of the state meet as the 17th athlete to multiple kids at 6.64 hand-timed that have never gotten close to the mark other than that one meet.

If FAT Timing was available and cost efficient throughout the state then I think considering your method would make more sense. However, the format would be really exciting and would change how athletes and coaches took the indoor season.

Jason
01/22/2019 1:10:13 PM
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@fletchthe2nd Question.... What is the ideal number of entries per event are we shooting for? I have been in NC for the last 6 years and the State Meet being setup on a rolling schedule kills me. Especially on a down year for entries.
@fletchthe2nd

Question.... What is the ideal number of entries per event are we shooting for? I have been in NC for the last 6 years and the State Meet being setup on a rolling schedule kills me. Especially on a down year for entries.
01/22/2019 1:56:31 PM
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@fletchthe2nd Just wondering did you guys take in account that the bulk of the qualifiers last year were seniors in the 55m dash. Please don't take that as a smear it really is just a question. I have sat in on the standard meetings before. I just didn't know if that was accidentally overlooked this year. Also since the 1A/2A is a dual classification instead of an isolated classification like just 3A I really do think the standards should be kept to keep a field of 24 per event. When all 4 have their own classification State Championship I think 16 is the ideal field size for any event at the State Meet.
@fletchthe2nd Just wondering did you guys take in account that the bulk of the qualifiers last year were seniors in the 55m dash. Please don't take that as a smear it really is just a question. I have sat in on the standard meetings before. I just didn't know if that was accidentally overlooked this year. Also since the 1A/2A is a dual classification instead of an isolated classification like just 3A I really do think the standards should be kept to keep a field of 24 per event. When all 4 have their own classification State Championship I think 16 is the ideal field size for any event at the State Meet.
01/22/2019 4:21:25 PM
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@fletchthe2nd With regards to 1A/2A, there were only 4 out of 26 athletes that best 6.64 in 2018 in 55m dash prelims for indoor state championship. Seems 6.68 -6.70 would have been good mark. The problem is the reported hand times that skew the mark. It's a tough job if reviewed every two years, things change drastically year to year. Thanks for providing information on the upcoming session and thank you for all the hard work and commitment to our sport.
@fletchthe2nd With regards to 1A/2A, there were only 4 out of 26 athletes that best 6.64 in 2018 in 55m dash prelims for indoor state championship. Seems 6.68 -6.70 would have been good mark. The problem is the reported hand times that skew the mark. It's a tough job if reviewed every two years, things change drastically year to year. Thanks for providing information on the upcoming session and thank you for all the hard work and commitment to our sport.
01/22/2019 6:38:38 PM
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@ninjazx6r1 - standards are set from analyzing the entry lists (not State performances) every two years.
@ninjazx6r1 - standards are set from analyzing the entry lists (not State performances) every two years.
01/22/2019 7:15:20 PM
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@PBolton 10-4 on that but we all know a 6.64c = 6.8 or 7.0.90% of the time....not 6.4.
@PBolton 10-4 on that but we all know a 6.64c = 6.8 or 7.0.90% of the time....not 6.4.
01/23/2019 11:41:49 AM
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@ninjazx6r1 I think milesplit auto adjusts the hand times. So a 6.35 hand time is rounded up and .24 added. So the 6.64h in the database is already adjusted and should be a qualifier.
@ninjazx6r1 I think milesplit auto adjusts the hand times. So a 6.35 hand time is rounded up and .24 added. So the 6.64h in the database is already adjusted and should be a qualifier.
01/23/2019 12:22:12 PM
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@jds0130 Thanks, so right now only 1 55m athlete has made the standard officially. Looks like we will have plenty of entries and the kids get to compete.
@jds0130 Thanks, so right now only 1 55m athlete has made the standard officially. Looks like we will have plenty of entries and the kids get to compete.
01/23/2019 1:01:11 PM
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@ninjazx6r1 in the database there is 9 who are at or under 6.64 this season for 1A/2A. Only one of those marks is FAT and was run indoors. [url=https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=2537]https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=2537[/url] 4A has 14 under 6.54 [url=https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=2537]https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=2537[/url] 3A has 30 under 6.64 [url=https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=6492]https://nc.milesplit.com/rankings/events/high-school-boys/winter-track-and-field/55m?year=2019&accuracy=all&league=6492[/url]
01/23/2019 1:02:26 PM
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@ninjazx6r1 - nine boys have currently met the standard for the 55 in 1A/2A. A 6.64H could have been hand timed at anything from 6.31 to 6.40. @jds0130 - before submission to MileSplit, meet directors should round up all hundredths to tenths, although hundredths should not even be recorded at a meet with handheld timing, I get that it is done to figure places for scored meets. MileSplit’s program then adds the .24. Jason C. is correct, the general opinion is that if we go to top 16 (24 in 1A/2A) in rankings alone as State entry, it would have to be FAT. But would a Polar Bear meet using FAT count or merely indoor meets? Cost prohibitive to many schools in east and west to travel to one of the indoor facilities in NC or VA. If we can get a planned indoor facility with a banked track around Asheville done, that eases 2/3 of the state but still leaves the most eastern part out. Things like these are why we strongly encourage coaches to join the NCTCCCA to have a voice in always improving our sports.
@ninjazx6r1 - nine boys have currently met the standard for the 55 in 1A/2A. A 6.64H could have been hand timed at anything from 6.31 to 6.40.

@jds0130 - before submission to MileSplit, meet directors should round up all hundredths to tenths, although hundredths should not even be recorded at a meet with handheld timing, I get that it is done to figure places for scored meets. MileSplit's program then adds the .24.

Jason C. is correct, the general opinion is that if we go to top 16 (24 in 1A/2A) in rankings alone as State entry, it would have to be FAT. But would a Polar Bear meet using FAT count or merely indoor meets? Cost prohibitive to many schools in east and west to travel to one of the indoor facilities in NC or VA. If we can get a planned indoor facility with a banked track around Asheville done, that eases 2/3 of the state but still leaves the most eastern part out.

Things like these are why we strongly encourage coaches to join the NCTCCCA to have a voice in always improving our sports.

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