4A 4x8 relay rule?
05/21/2013 7:28:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
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I have a quick question without trying to offend anyone but how was knightdales 4x8 not disqualifed on saturday but Broughtons 4x8 was I understand they both broke down too early, although I believe someone told be Broughton initially did the move and knightdale followed but they both should have known the rules so they both should have been disqualified
I have a quick question without trying to offend anyone but how was knightdales 4x8 not disqualifed on saturday but Broughtons 4x8 was I understand they both broke down too early, although I believe someone told be Broughton initially did the move and knightdale followed but they both should have known the rules so they both should have been disqualified
05/21/2013 12:06:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
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I think it was because none of the officials on the field saw it. As I understand it, Cary filed protest but was fallen on deaf ears. I believe only people in the stands saw the early break and calls can't be made from the stands. The officials were probably focusing on Broughton's early break and didn't notice Knightdale's.
I think it was because none of the officials on the field saw it. As I understand it, Cary filed protest but was fallen on deaf ears. I believe only people in the stands saw the early break and calls can't be made from the stands. The officials were probably focusing on Broughton's early break and didn't notice Knightdale's.
05/21/2013 12:58:36 PM
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@davidyang_95 @phrozendeuce It was my understanding that those were two completely separate issues (Broughton broke early at one point, then later in the race a Knightdale runner cut in too early and may have impeded Cary's runner. In the Knightdale case, there was not an assigned official in position to witness it and make a call, and the person that was there was not able to say definitely what had occurred, and so there was no penalty. I don't think the two infractions happened at the same point of the race. I was present for the appeal filed by Cary, but did not participate in the discussion, and so it is possible that I may have gotten the wrong impression.
@davidyang_95 @phrozendeuce It was my understanding that those were two completely separate issues (Broughton broke early at one point, then later in the race a Knightdale runner cut in too early and may have impeded Cary's runner. In the Knightdale case, there was not an assigned official in position to witness it and make a call, and the person that was there was not able to say definitely what had occurred, and so there was no penalty. I don't think the two infractions happened at the same point of the race. I was present for the appeal filed by Cary, but did not participate in the discussion, and so it is possible that I may have gotten the wrong impression.
05/21/2013 1:07:49 PM
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I was over by the finish line area where the other legs were lined up, and it looked like a few teams broke early, but got back into position. Judging by Coach George's pictures of the 4x800, you can clearly see that Broughton did not get back into position. Maybe that's why only they were disqualified. There were no clear pictures off of the start of Knightdale to see whether they did or not, but like you stated, people from the other side of the track said it was blantantly obvious. They ended up winning by 4 seconds, so did it make a difference? No. But is a rule a rule for a reason? Yes. Apparently it wasn't clear enough to make that call (if anybody was looking at all). But it is obvious though that at the ONE BREAKING POINT, there needs to be a couple field judges. I am the coach of the Pine Forest 4x800 team that got 2nd. We wanted nothing more than to win states, but to win it that way just doesn't feel right. I want us to win because we're the better team. But regardless, congratulations to Knightdale for that win. They were the better team that day and I have a lot of respect for those kids and how hard they work.
I was over by the finish line area where the other legs were lined up, and it looked like a few teams broke early, but got back into position. Judging by Coach George's pictures of the 4x800, you can clearly see that Broughton did not get back into position. Maybe that's why only they were disqualified. There were no clear pictures off of the start of Knightdale to see whether they did or not, but like you stated, people from the other side of the track said it was blantantly obvious. They ended up winning by 4 seconds, so did it make a difference? No. But is a rule a rule for a reason? Yes. Apparently it wasn't clear enough to make that call (if anybody was looking at all). But it is obvious though that at the ONE BREAKING POINT, there needs to be a couple field judges. I am the coach of the Pine Forest 4x800 team that got 2nd. We wanted nothing more than to win states, but to win it that way just doesn't feel right. I want us to win because we're the better team. But regardless, congratulations to Knightdale for that win. They were the better team that day and I have a lot of respect for those kids and how hard they work.
05/21/2013 2:14:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
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@CoachGeorgeRJR I'm not sure about the other infraction but at the beginning of the race everyone was quite sure that Knightdale had cut in before the break point, I have no stake in it if they were or weren't disqualified just wanted to know why both weren't if they both committed the same infraction
@CoachGeorgeRJR I'm not sure about the other infraction but at the beginning of the race everyone was quite sure that Knightdale had cut in before the break point, I have no stake in it if they were or weren't disqualified just wanted to know why both weren't if they both committed the same infraction
05/21/2013 2:42:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 43
It happened around 50m into turn 1. 3 officials there with flags. Maybe they all focused on Broughton since they made the biggest move and it was more obvious.
It happened around 50m into turn 1. 3 officials there with flags. Maybe they all focused on Broughton since they made the biggest move and it was more obvious.
05/21/2013 2:46:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
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@phrozendeuce Broughton and Knightdale broke early. The official saw Broughton break early and did not see Knightdale. It was on video and presented to the officials, but video could not be used to make the call. Since the official didn't make the call, Knightdale's finish stood.
@phrozendeuce

Broughton and Knightdale broke early. The official saw Broughton break early and did not see Knightdale. It was on video and presented to the officials, but video could not be used to make the call. Since the official didn't make the call, Knightdale's finish stood.
05/21/2013 3:15:17 PM
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@phrozendeuce @ParklandCoach When you said this, it reminded me of one other thing that I heard during the games committee conversation. It was stated that the Knightdale runner corrected his position after breaking early, and that the officials on the spot could not state how many steps he took out of his correct lane. If true, that certainly would have factored into the decision. And Coach Fritz is correct, video (other than the official finish line video used to determine order of finish) cannot be presented as evidence either for or against an official's call. Sometimes, things that appear obvious on video or photo may not be correct, due to perspective and the effects of digital focusing.
@phrozendeuce @ParklandCoach When you said this, it reminded me of one other thing that I heard during the games committee conversation. It was stated that the Knightdale runner corrected his position after breaking early, and that the officials on the spot could not state how many steps he took out of his correct lane. If true, that certainly would have factored into the decision.

And Coach Fritz is correct, video (other than the official finish line video used to determine order of finish) cannot be presented as evidence either for or against an official's call. Sometimes, things that appear obvious on video or photo may not be correct, due to perspective and the effects of digital focusing.

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