MileSplit Discussion Board

North Carolina High School Opener

  • #1 North Carolina High School Opener
    Yesterdays meet was great, being back at UNC was a great experience for our athletes. Several questions however have bothered me about the meet. First: why was the 3200 moved into the middle of the meet? Kids who ran the 300 had little time to recover for the 4x400. Second: Athletes who were on their way to state qualifing standards were pulled off the track in the 3200. Yes they were lapped but their crime was their coach had entered them with a true time and they were in a fast heat.If I had an athlete in that race and they were pulled I would have demanded my entry fee back.Third: The order of the races did not build excitement. After the first heat of each event their was no reason to watch other races unless you had an athlete running in that heat.
    Again , enjoyed the day but I want our sport to be the best.
  • #2 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    I too had some runners pulled off the track during our 4 X 8 relay....We also put in a true seeded time that we ran before Christmas. I asked for my money back in the event and they said the person I spoke to accused me of putting in the wrong time and told me I should not have been in the race. They also said there is no way I would get my money back. I had a great experience otherwise and thought the meet was ran well, but next time Durham Striders, let the kids race. Don't take kids off the track just because they are lapped. On a 200 meter track, that means you are only about 35- 40 sec. back and in the 2 mile, that is the difference between a girl running 12:00 and A 12:40...which is still a state qualifying time. It was hard to see those girls taken off the track in tears during the fast heat of the 2 mile, and those girls were still running very hard....I have been coming to this meet for about 10 years now and I have seen kids taken off the track, but only because their stride was down to a slow jog and they had no business being out there, not just because they were lapped....we can do better.
  • #3 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    @landisb
    I feel your pain, same thing happened to my girls in the 4x800 in fast heat. We got lapped as we were getting ready to hand off to our last leg. Our time would of been a little off from seed time,which we did before Christmas, but still under 11:10, which is State Qualifying time, luckly, we have already qualified and my anchor was in another race! I don't think anyone should get pulled, if they are in fast heat! Just because they are getting lapped, does not mean they are not running fast, we would of been 2nd in other heat!
  • #5 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    @theeraser21 It was clearly stated in the meet information and at the coaches meeting what would happen if an athlete was lapped. I had a girl pulled after being lapped. I had one disqualified for a false start. I had one that was late checking in and missed her opportunity to compete in the shot put. In each case, the officials made calls consistent with the rules of the meet.
  • #6 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    @dldjad This is true. However, I think (and so do those above me) that the policy needs to be revised. When a kid is on state qualifying pace and then gets pulled off the track, preventing them from getting a qualifying time, there's a problem. Right now in North Carolina, the twelfth-best girl in the entire state in the 3200 is 46 seconds slower than the #1 girl. So, if we lined up the twelve best two-milers, she would get lapped and pulled off the track, even though she would beat everyone in the next heat. That seems flawed. An easy solution: don't pull anyone off from the fast heats. The real problem lies in the slowest section, where athletes could be running 14+ minutes. We shouldn't punish good runners for having the bad luck to be in the race with a much faster runner.

    With the JDL track providing competition next year, I'm not even sure the Striders will run this early-season meet at UNC, so it might be a moot point.
  • #8 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    CoachGeorgeRJR
    @dldjad This is true. However, I think (and so do those above me) that the policy needs to be revised. When a kid is on state qualifying pace and then gets pulled off the track, preventing them from getting a qualifying time, there's a problem. Right now in North Carolina, the twelfth-best girl in the entire state in the 3200 is 46 seconds slower than the #1 girl. So, if we lined up the twelve best two-milers, she would get lapped and pulled off the track, even though she would beat everyone in the next heat. That seems flawed. An easy solution: don't pull anyone off from the fast heats. The real problem lies in the slowest section, where athletes could be running 14+ minutes. We shouldn't punish good runners for having the bad luck to be in the race with a much faster runner.

    With the JDL track providing competition next year, I'm not even sure the Striders will run this early-season meet at UNC, so it might be a moot point.


    @CoachGeorgeRJR Wesley Frazier is listed for the 3200 at the Eastern High School Challenge. So if the policy of pulling lapped athletes is in effect at that meet, how many people in her heat would NOT be lapped? I think not pulling runners from the track during the fast heat is fair. Still, why are we just punishing kids in this one event? Maybe for a meet like the EHSC, stop timing once we get 10 seconds above the meet qualifying mark for the 3200 as well as taking a similar approach to other events (using appropriate times. That could discourage coaches from registering athletes who are not at the level they need to be to compete in the meet. Virginia Tech did this back in 2007. I think they used the meet entry standard as the cutoff, so anyone who didn't meet the standard in their race did not get a time.
  • #9 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    The Eastern Challenge is coming up this weekend. Does anybody know what the policy will be regarding lapped runners?

    From the performance lists (www.durhamstriders.com/webroot/files/cal/2012%20EH....), the Women's 3200 could be a real problem as some very good runners could get lapped in the fast heat. The women's 4 by 800 also looks to be problematic, even if they split into two heats.

    Event 13 Women 3200 Meter Run
    ===============================================================================
    Name Year School Seed
    ===============================================================================
    1 Frazier, Wesley Ravenscroft 10:22.76
    2 Greengrass, Rebekah Panther Cree 11:10.70
    3 McBride, Anna Davie County 11:11.00
    4 Frazier, Ryen Ravenscroft 11:13.70
    5 Motley, Abby Kellam HS 11:22.04
    6 Rossabi, Jessica Green Hope H 11:25.00
    7 Cox, Dana Panther Cree 11:25.40
    8 Foskey, Dakota West Johnsto 11:30.00
    8 Henson, Kristen Reagan 11:30.00
    10 Enright, Theresa Green Hope H 11:35.00
    10 Bartolomeo, Rachel Cardinal Gib 11:35.00
    12 Doggett, MaryGrace Cardinal Gib 11:39.00
  • #10 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    @run_on
    I'd go farther than that - there is no reason to remove any lapped runners in this meet, unless they are just trying to send a message that ... well, I don't know what, maybe that distance runners shouldn't be slow and waste everyone's time.
    The only events where lapping is even a possibility happen Friday night. There are no other events besides distance races that can be delayed. The number of heats will not be that big in any event, and the potential time saved is minuscule (~45 seconds per race). The top seeds in the girls 4x800 and girls 3200 can easily lap runners on their way to 4A state qualifying. If people get pulled off the track in that situation, coaches should simply refuse to participate in meets put on by this organization in the future.
  • #11 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    Wow, what a smart rule! Now I can go to watch the meet and feel confident that it won't take long to watch the distance races, because there will be only *one* girl still on the track at the end of the 3200 (and sadly, her very fast little sister will have been pulled along with the rest), and only about six of sixteen girls' teams left in the 4x800! What a time saver! So efficient.

    But seriously, is anyone talking to the Durham Striders to figure out what is going on? This is ridiculous...
  • #12 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    I need to say thanks to the Durham Striders organization for not removing lapped runners at the Eastern HS Challenge. There were many lapped runners in the distance races who ran well. For example in the women's 4x800, Green Hope lapped some teams twice (!) -- including teams that met the NC state meet qualifying standard. It is not easy to keep track of all of the runners when they are on different laps, but they pulled it off. Thank you Durham Striders -- much appreciated.
  • #13 Re: North Carolina High School Opener
    @marathondave As I was perusing the entries for this weeks JDL opener, I noticed there are 104 young ladies in the 1600m. Times range from a 5:12 to 7:59. First question: How many on the track at one time (or, how many heats should be run)? Second question: Should any be pulled if they have been lapped twice?

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